The Hammers 1:29 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Bilic should give O'brien a chance to play as right back

Jenkinsons is not fully fit yet...

Alex V 1:28 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

stewie griffin 1:19 Sun Sep 27

Just because I thought we were backward under Allardyce doesn't mean that automatically everything has to be rosy under Bilic. Bilic is a massive, massive improvement, no doubt at all about that.

Whether or not we agree with what Bilic is doing, I don't think we can ignore it. Someone like Brendan Rodgers gets a lot of criticism for messing about with the Liverpool team, and I think it's worth noting that Bilic seems to be cut from the same cloth. Some of it is so downright weird that I can't help but criticise it.

wanstead_hammer 1:21 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

I-Ron 1:08

Exactly.

And I think Song will be the key man. Start making things tick if he hopefully keeps on top of his fitness and injury free.

stewie griffin 1:19 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Alex V 1:07 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

I don't think there's a lot more going on than that at all. Let's be clear, he's still relatively new to the club so he's probably still learning about what his players can and can't do. He also took over a side that had won 3 of its last 21 games, and has propelled them to 3rd in the League; so on balance I'm pretty happy.

As for players rotating positions, good. There isn't a single good football team in the world that has players rigidly stuck in one area of the pitch. Indeed, it was one of Allardyce's greatest - and most outdated - failings. Having spent 4 years being critical of hi for doing just that, you're now being criticial of his successor for allowing players to interchange positions.

i-Ron 1:08 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Hoolahan found it easy to get space... and Norwich found it easy to get the ball to him. Both Noble and Kouyate couldn't get near him or stop those passes being fed to him. As a central pairing both struggled with their passing too. Once again we aren't dominating the middle of the park and as a team our passing is poor. Noble doesn't take many risks but at least gave it to Payet to attempt to create something, whereas Kouyate's passing is very poor even when successful sometimes they are delivered awkwardly. A yard behind or in front. As a team yesterday we were struggling to get going at times as we didn't have any rhythm or fluidity to our moves and it's the middle of the park that needs to start them. Lots of effort but lacking in technique sadly.

Cresswell and Jenkinson are equally as bad at the moment technically, and are getting pulled apart when the opposition attack us. It's absolutely baffling that I read people saying Cresswell is worth £30-40 million. I think we could find a better left back for £6-10million. It wouldn't surprise me if we sign full back in January.

I was quite disappointed yesterday to be honest. I'd like to see what Obiang and Song could do together in the middle of the park. Hopefully we will start having the ball a little more and start moves a little easier.

Alex V 1:07 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

stewie griffin 12:58 Sun Sep 27

Well I think there's a lot more going on than that. In many and maybe most cases in football you can explain results in terms of the quality of performance, or goalmouth incidents etc. But I think that's hiding the truth that actually a lot of what's gone on this season is directly down to Bilic's constant changes.

You can just look at individuals as evidence. Look at Lanzini - played left wing, right wing and central midfield. Moses has played left wing, right wing and up front. Payet's played across the midfield, sometimes in a free role, and sometimes in a more disciplined position. Noble played yesterday in a role he hasn't played this season under Bilic. God knows where Kouyate was being asked to play. Of course good players can and do adapt, but I think there are limits to that.

It seems to me that Bilic is a huge tinkerer - he is rotating and switching the formation and the tactics game to game, and often within games as well. It has had a massive bearing on our results - some a very good influence, to be fair. Okay he is learning about his players and a league he clearly isn't experienced in, but there comes a time where he has to settle on an approach. At the moment we are throwing matches at home imo.

stewie griffin 12:58 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Alex - the only difference against Newcastle was that we scored an early goal, and were able to control the game from there.

The manager said exactly that after the Newcastle game

GreenStreetPlayer 12:57 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Still early days, but hard to see where we are going at the moment. Unbelievable results away, 4 points out of 12 at home against teams considered the lower end.

We should enjoy our position and the football is better but uncomfortable with the possession stat at home. Norwich had 56% and Newcastle had 61%.

We do need to set up differently at home as the results and possession lost show this.

Takashi Miike 12:49 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

for the majority of the first half we were playing 4-0-5-1 with zero coverage in front of the back four

cuzoftheeast 12:46 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

alex v

hard though it is, I have to agree with you entirely re the formation

Full Claret Jacket 12:44 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Bilic isn't as good as some people think, many of the players aren't as good as people think. I've seen enough to believe we'll do alright though but just like last season I'm sure we'll be saying we could have done much better.
Whilst we can all pick holes in team selection and tactics in hindsight, we've got to trust the manager will get more right than wrong over the season and we'll be comfortable. This is a much more technical side than we've had for a while. Enjoy it.

Alex V 12:44 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

I think there's a lot of confusion over the systems we're playing, partly because you can play the same formation but operate it totally differently, and partly because Opta and other media outlets are so fucking lazy in noting them properly. Imo we have started with a 4-2-3-1 only once this season - at home to Newcastle.

Yesterday there is simply no way that Kouyate was playing alongside Noble. No way on Earth. On the average positions he was up alongside Sakho and Payet.

Yes, you could say yesterday was a 4-1-4-1 in the same way that we played against Man City. But in practice it was entirely different - Kouyate and Payet were roving in free roles, and Noble was often the only recognised midfielder - everyone else ahead of the defence played ahead of the ball. You cannot build a measured attack with that system.

Now maybe players aren't following Bilic's instructions properly, but then why isn't he putting them right on the pitch? For the first 60 minutes yesterday our formation was laughable imo. We are so lucky Norwich didn't exploit it more.

stewie griffin 12:27 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

We did play the same system

Alex V 12:21 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

I think it is a 'knock Bilic' thing actually. I think some of his tactical decisions have been inexplicable. Far too much meddling in the way we play for me. If we'd played the same system we used against Newcastle in every home game, then the other three home games would be likely wins imo.

ELLIOTTSHAMMERS 12:15 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

This isn't a knock Billic thing but we cannot play 4-2-3-1 at home as we do away, we have to be on the front foot when playing at home, away we can soak up pressure and hit teams on the counter attack ad we have that ability in a 4-2-3-1 set up but a 4-4-2 or even a 3-5-2 would be more affective at home as would make us stronger in the middle of the park

Alex V 12:12 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Private Dancer 12:06 Sun Sep 27

Well for me you're polarising the issue. Not being absurdly cavalier doesn't mean playing defensively. How about we attack as a unit, rather than five runners playing ahead of the ball? We'd actually attack better that way, and it wouldn't be suicidal defensively.

Private Dancer 12:06 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Well accoording to West Ham folklore as long as we have a go and play football the punters are happy?

What would happen if we start conservativley and still go a goal down? We would then have to attack, so surely it makes sense to at least try to go 1 up and then we are in control. What you're saying just isn't realistic, more so because at some point we would have to step it up anyway and then the oppo could still score with llittle time left, unless you are suggesting we try to play for a 0-0 every home game? Plus it would bore the pants off the paying public.

Alex V 11:58 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Private Dancer 10:57 Sun Sep 27

Well it's costing us results. How do the home crowd like that?

Sven Roeder 11:35 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

I'm not sure what that was about. It's not as though Payet is a player who dives around.

Mad Dog 11:31 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Sven. Both the payet incidents baffled me

Sven Roeder 11:23 Sun Sep 27
Re: West Ham v Norwich - Official Match Thread 2-2 FT

Dean referreed the match like it was rugby union.
Set the tone early when Payet swerved past the defender in front of the benches and the bloke hit him with a body slam that wouldn't have been out of place in WWF. No yellow card.
A bit later he got shirtfronted with a hand to the face and it wasn't even a free kick.

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